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Hi Dropside
Yes I think DKL is deeply frustrating – and the more you see it - the more you realise the practice of the board is intentional.
It’s worth people knowing how this works – probably teaching granny’s to suck eggs, knowing a number of the contributors on here - but there might be others who maybe aren’t so well versed, or just reading in the background and would appreciate the view (apologies if below tells you all nothing more than you already know)
Lets take a DKL scenario (or 3)
- Basis - We start with 200 issued shares – 100 owned by board and 100 by us retail traders
- Scenario 1 – we get growth in profitability from 200 - 400
- Scenario 2 – As above – but the board has also issued out to themselves a further 200 shares (for services, incentives, salaries and of course to purchase ‘ideas’ they have had via other organisations they own)
- Scenario 3 – as per scenario 2 but profitability stays at 200
Scenario 1 – ideal
- As profitability grows from 200 – 400
- Both Board Retail traders get 50% share each – worth 200 (100% increase each – as per the growth %)
- That’s how it should work – All shareholders prosper
Scenario 2 – not ideal
- Profitability grows from 200 – 400 – lots of boasting, aren’t we great by board - but there is now 400 shares - 300 with board (75%)- 100 retail (25%)
- Board value is 75% of 400 = 300 (nice growth - 300% in fact from the original 100), Retail is now 25% of 400 = 100
- Retail traders no better off at all - despite a doubling in profit
- starting to sound familiar – well read scenario 3 for the full horror story
Scenario 3 – DKL
- Profitability stays at 200, no growth – lots of BS and jam tomorrow promises by the board (now it's getting really familiar) - but there is now 400 shares - 300 with board (75%)- 100 retail (25%)
- Board value is 75% of 200 = 150 (wow - nice 50% value growth from original 100 - despite no profit growth), Retail is 25% of 200 = 75
- Retail traders are now 25% worse off
- how? Profitability is the same? Where’s the value gone?
- Answer – It’s not gone, it’s just transferred – guess who to?
some people are doing ok out of DKL – its just not us – beware.
i think the issued share capital has gone up 3 - 4 times at least since i bought in.
in which case the board holding (what they originally bought in for ) is truly around 8% of the current issued share capital - the maintenance of the additional circa 27% is a straight extraction - from us to them - dressed up as something different.
yes - i think the board has also consistently maintained there equity holding collectively around 35%
now one could argue that is great as the board has 'skin in the game'
however - when you look at how they maintain that level of equity its not quite so favourable - hint - its not via them purchasing stock to maintain this level! you rarely/never see a director purchase of stock.
so ask yourselves, or do some research - how do they maintain a consistent 35% equity holding whilst never paying anything to buy stock - whilst the rest of us see a constant and significant dilution.
im very similar to blue2guit - averaged down over years to about 7.5p average cost - last bought a few year ago and then decided will not do anymore.
i'm not sure the board as yet have achieved a single thing they stated as an objective - not one.
yes it should - but we've heard it all before.
the CPO operation was going to be highly lucrative - we'd have our own nursuries, a 70k capacity plant, RSPO certification, a regular dividend, Guitry would soon follow, regular annuity type profits etc etc etc
and then overtime its just promises promises
as i say Stace, you may think im been negative - but i'm no con artist like this group are starting to look.
keep your money away until you see the promises materialise - otherwise like many of us on here - 3-4 years down the line you will also wish you had.
Yes - i've owned shares for around 9 years - so been watching this for a long time Stace.
to your point around why not sell - i would if it was worth it, shares are down so significantly now id rather leave it where it is and keep pointing out the nonsense that goes on here with the board.
i was positive and behind DKL, and would still be if i thought they really cared about the shareholders - i can handle poor performance when you feel its done with the right spirit and effort.
DKL care only about the board - im not in the game of 'ive made an error so why not let others' - my advice to anyone around DKL would be stay clear - anything you put in will ultimately find its way to board pockets.
id love to know what % of the issued share capital has been distributed in this manner - issuing of shares for services, salaries, advice etc etc
Aristide is now at over 4% - so for the rest of us the value of the firm has to increase by at least that for us just to stay still! - N
oh well if Lincoln said it must be right - how is a Director taking a salary via issue of new shares good?
please explain to me why that is preferable to him taking a salary and purchasing the shares on the open market.
one route shows a demand for DKL shares, goes down as a director buying stock and doesn't dilute everyone else's holding - the other does is the issue of loads of additional shares and low prices.
The NED taking shares instead of salary in this manner is not a good sign, a good sign would be taking a salary and buying the shares - this is issuing lots of shares at low prices and further dilution for everyone else (i see he takes a fixed value of shares - if he has that much faith why not take a fixed number of shares) - i expect its done this way as some sort of tax break or other measure in favour of a board member (which is the only group of shareholders they care about)
The March FFB improvement ill believe when i see - the next report will likely bear zero resemblance or continuity with this one - they say whatever they need to in order to get through the next month.
November 22 - PKO and PKC sales are being held to sell in larger batches to maximise prices therefore there were no sales in November.
Feb 23 - PKO Sales (tonnes) 30 289 -down 89.6%
Mar 23 - Palm Kernel Oil ('PKO') prices have decreased from their all time peak levels last year and the international price is currently trading at around €1,025. With regional PKO demand softening, sales are being carefully managed to optimise prices.
absolute 42 carrot jokers - couldn't run a bath.
Fenlli - yes i was warned too about investing AIM stocks listed in Africa - i rationalised it that it wasn't some risky mineral or mining organisation, it was a solid commodity play and that actually the case stacked up i.e. there was limited processing capacity in west africa etc etc
the issue here, unfortunately, is it seems that DKL isn't focused on making that business work - DKL just wants to sell the story - its focus is on extracting shareholder value from us to them - the board. its done via issuing of shares to themselves via pearlside, providing consulting services for cash and shares, giving themselves generous salaries and share options - there was even a period when they rented machinery to DKL from themselves.
you mention that we seem to have had generally positive news? sorry - don't want to disappoint you - but no - we haven't.
they boast about record high prices (nothing to do with DKL - and we've sold record low numbers into it) - and record extraction rates - great - but it means very little when your comparing an additional 0.2 or 0.3% extra on low numbers.
we need to start looking at the facts of whats happening here - there isn't any good news - i fear we are being ripped off and there will be little we can do about it.
if the board enjoy spending money made that way, if they feel that makes them successful savvy business men then - then they are different types to me - i couldn't enjoy spending money id made like that.
how do we know they are a large holder? doesn't state it anywhere i can see.
I also would not underestimate the power of these forum's and retail traders here also, todays fall can also be sentiment/momentum led - there's no institutions rushing to purchase more DKL, the Dirs aren't buying and that only leaves retail traders.
If i was tracking DKL, or considering buying DKL id come to places like this and check out whats been said - and at the moment its not great - i'd sell / not buy if was reading this!
If DKL board do read these forum's all i can say is i (and i expect others) will keep calling out this pathetic performance - and if that's cutting off my nose to spite my face so be it - i'm down enough now to let the rest slide unfortunately.
i certainly don't intend to pump up the potential of investing here and the share price in the hope of roping others in to make the same mistake i did.
ill carry on calling out all the BS, all the failed promises, and all the Jam tomorrow narrative we've all heard before. so either up the game DKL - or expect more of what currently seeing with respect to the share-price.
apologies - rant over, but this currently is nothing more than deserved.
Thanks Rugs - useful that you have that contact and Lincoln is aware.
At risk of sounding pointy (which i don't mean to be) - which aspects of the criticism do you think are unfair?
If i've gone overboard on the criticism i am definitely happy to listen and reign it in where not fair - i have to say though im more aligned with Danny's view at the moment.
totally agree Rugs - i think the senior management like floating around acting like senior management - lots of big talk with little actual content or capability.
if you go through the back reports - literally nothing they have promised, near or long term has materialised - the RSPO certification is typical - i think at one point we were told it was in the process of been signed off by audit reviewers - that was probable 3+ years ago.
its just all BS
honestly you read over some of the previous reports and it's utter nonsense.
this was an update in November
PKO and PKC sales are being held to sell in larger batches to maximise prices therefore there were no sales in November.
and then here is the feb report numbers on Jan
PKO Sales (tonnes) 30 289 -89.6%
how do you possibly reconcile those statements just a few months apart - were holding stock back to sell in bigger quantities - with a follow up of - we've now sold 90% LESS than last year.
utter utter nonsense - they are just making it up.
the board will of extracted as much as they can out of it/us i expect soon - everyone beginning to open their eyes to the mis-management and blatant self-interest that is evident here.
Board are interested only in maximising board member value rather than shareholder value.
once they've milked it for all they can it will be onto the next one i fear - same names, doing the same thing via the same mechanism
hi blue2guit - i can feel your frustration there - i feel the same.
my take on this, unfortunately, is that this is the nature of this board- frustratingly i was warned by some investor friends that this could happen (with similar experience in investing in African miners and commodities etc listed on AIM) and indeed it has.
i honestly think the issue here is that it is much easier for the board to create their wealth by setting up lots of these types of companies, and various organisation structures, consultancy services etc - that enable them to entice investors and through various means transfer the wealth to themselves - and it is easier to do that than actually get into the hard work of making the business really generate shareholder value and profit.
every year over the period you have invested (and me too) the board would of taken salaries, share schemes, invoiced for consultancy services, set up holding companies to generate 'ideas' for DKL and the like to purchase (ie buy off themselves) - all of this is really just transferring value and wealth to themselves from us - they therefore have little incentive to really make the company profitable and genuinely grow.
when i first bought in at DKL i think Lincoln has circa 1m shares - its now over 5m - he's doing very well out of it without having to spend anything personally or actually deliver any results.
frustratingly i can't see much changing - the board doesn't need it to change to create their wealth - much easier doing it this way.