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Re the above article:
To the many "Lloyds never has a bad day" gang, any money 'set aside' will as they told us with PPI, be overly done, and will be returned to us as a 'special' next time around when it was found it wasn't needed.
They will be ****-a-hoop as the share price plunges, telling us all " We can now buyback far more" and go on to tell all that we will be all the richer for that, next time around.
They will tell us it is all overdone to avoid a 'windfall tax', so a shrewd move by the CEO .
All this joy, with a share price LOWER than pre Gov sell off, pre dividends being returned, pre higher property prices held on Lloyds book, pre the higher interest rates we now have, pre massive double digit inflation, and post the massive PPI payments ending and huge sums of profit spent on buying back millions of shares.
See it for what it is, a privatised bank in name only, but just a money making buffer zone between HMG and the feckless, greedy and stupid or artful public, taking on too much debt to buy what they want, not what they can afford to service comfortably but not caring as all the time knowing that nothing bad will happen the them, who are the victims being 'bullied' by the greedy hand that 'wrongly' lent them the money.
All full endorsed by HMG who don't care for the morals of who is to blame, just so long as the high street till's keep pinging and thus needing the feckless to keep their business owning chums for going under.
WE not the HMG puppet CEO fund this, so don't expect any different. Wait till we are paying their rent arrears and litigation costs within a short while.
As one door closes the next one slams shut for Lloyds
Just in case anyone never saw 'my reasons':
"I find it odd that long term Lloyds shareholders and watchers have to ask why Lloyds are dropping, along with Natwest.
People asking 'have the results been leaked'.
Of course the massive profits were known about months ago, hence the rise from the mid 40's to the 50's.
But like all 'seem' to realise that the share price 'overly' drops, so does it work the other way, and the share price on the known leaked news become 'overly inflated'.
The large institutions know to get out pre the news, hence the drop.
But surely by now most don't need to ask "How come results good or not too bad yet we still drop?"
Clearly because the massive profit is 'already priced in' AND SOME, due to hype and the masses buying in later, after nervously worrying and only buying in when the price has had a sustained rise, BUT by then those in the know, have already bought in weeks before at lower prices, so, those buying late are paying over the odds, come the news, the share price returns to its 'real' market value.
The large buyers exit near the top as they are unloading whilst late coming masses eagerly buy up their cast offs a week or two pre the reporting season, after feeling 'safe' as the share price has risen, when the truth is, it is the worst time to buy as the results is 'baked in', and the masses buying later push it ABOVE what it is really worth.
Hence the drop on the results day for banks, UNLESS the CEO pulls a surprise out of the bag which the 'large investors' weren't privy too, say a real meaningful increase in div's . But all we get now is 'buybacks', thus the bank is keeping hold of its profits and not dispersing it to those who wish to hold, so only make a gain if they sell, BUT as we see, the buyback gain, is so 'offset' by the lack of dividend increase, the share price drops MORE than the buyback gains, so worst of both worlds.
SEE IT HOW IT IS"
"As long as I am paid a nice dividend
I don't care to much about share price
600,000 reasons to be happy with a 1.8p final"
It is just as well, albeit odd that you don't care about the share price.
Yet I wonder if that 300k were invested in a bank, and come the day they paid the interest the capital had dropped dramatically you would still 'not care' that your capital had been badly eroded just so long as they still paid you your interest?
I know like me it doesn't physically matter if you are not selling any anytime soon, but the 'choice' without loss is removed which is never nice, more so when you never know if this will rise above your average before some new disaster brings the lot crashing down, say if Labour get in, and YES we have to keep pinching ourselves to realise that Labour are 'not in' atm.
The sum invested in most accounts would pay the same now in interest and without the risk of capital fall, so the new car could see please the wife.
That said I am still fully invested here, but wish I had made better choices and not afraid to admit such.
Another great disappointing week to come here for reasons already posted
Renting is doomed to failure.
As the country is now filled with scammers just looking, faking, or creating issues to 'sue' over, renting is a minefield.
A friend of mine who is into large scale housing is now having to fit chips into extractor fans to PROVE that they have been left on, as the tenants jump on the 'mould' bandwagon.
They can sue for £20k, so this person has had to take a course on 'core drilling' to drill walls to prove that the 'damp and mould' is from condensation not rising damp, or penetration of water through walls etc.
Cases of tenants smearing yogurt etc are not unheard of to fake mould growth
And this is with the back drop of ever more HMG regulation, and tax benefits taken away.
Now fire, damp, noise transmission, legionnaires etc are all litigation waiting to happen if the costly checking and rectifying of any issues is not sorted to the tenants satisfaction.
Since Covid it is harder to evict the non payers, and home wreckers all made worse as their number increases as tenants know that private landlords can do little until a long time has elapsed. They know how to play the game.
So imagine a huge rich bank evicting some non Caucasian family, likely with a disabled member in the family, the 'sort' chosen by our biased BBC to gain maximum publicity and pity.
Not a great move imo, and I can't help wondering if it is more to do with the CEO still being a new puppet to be controlled by No. 10 to house the growing inorganic masses that HMG can no longer afford to fund housing for.
Let's hope not, and the rental market is more about taking business from the small guy to large professional landlords, who can meet the ever increasing rules, laws, and growing amounts of scammers, scummers, and dishonest who are overtaking decent tenants in many areas of the UK now.
But so long as the CEO gets his salary, and his puppet master is happy, then GUESS who will fund the losses IF I am correct in my cynical assumptions.
Raxi, yes I am almost certain they would.
I think, but unsure, that when the tragic Gulf disaster occurred and things looked so serious for BP. there was talk in Government of them bailing them out, as the British Gov didn't want it 'took over'
Likely I read such on here, and maybe it was just a posters casual comment, but have a feeling there was more to it.
Can anyone else recall such?
Personally would rather have higher div's than buybacks, as imo, higher div's create higher demand for shares, and so not then the concern about how many are in issue if they are in demand.
Also to me the 'only' gain to BP by buying back their own shares is the saving on the div. and at 4% ish, that is a 'couple of decades' of the 'saving' of the div on each share to pay for the cost of buying it.
Also, should the 'stuff' hit the fan, say Russia deliberately targets BP. oil wells to create another gulf style disaster, then the money BP. like us investors has 'blown' buying back it's shares, INSTEAD of investing the sum on other projects will add greatly to the 'then' plummeting share price, for a lot more of their capital is invested on what they already own, instead of acquiring new diverse strings to the bow.
A lovely story Brixton and your Aunt must have been a very decent person.
I think it is far more difficult now to have pride in your country due to the fact so many of our inhabitants have little respect for our nation, and so knowing that any kindly charitable acts is oft directed more at those who you may feel don't deserve to gain makes giving to a charity a bewildering decision.
Same with if joining the armed forces, never easy, but if you knew you were risking your life and limbs for your own loved ones, friends and fellow countrymen and if your nation looked after its own first and foremost, then many would consider a risk a little more worth taking.
When politicians have ruined our nation, not for a while but forever, it must be more tempting to wait for the enemy to come to you as no doubt millions of 'others' will do.
I prefer to give to animal charities but if I had been forced by HMG to take in a dozen dogs to house, treat, feed and clean up after, then I would consider that I had already done my 'bit' for those unfortunates and so wouldn't be dropping in a few coins in the 'Dogs home' tin as well.
At least holding Lloyds will ensure that unlike your lovely Aunt many of us won't be in that enviable position to be so charitable, apart from the £10 for Mr M's Xmas comp.
Skier, they certainly may well be, but BP pays a lot of tax, doesn't stop HMG taking it 'again'
Think what YOU would do, if instead of being a holder YOU were the Gov trying to raise money to keep your job.
May then be a huge difference. And as HMG call the shots we must consider at least the harder options available to them.
HMG don't bash banks for nothing, and although the oils have become recent targets for bashing 'then' coincidently exploiting, banks are not yet 'forgiven' by the masses and hence would get much support from spongers to hit wealthy isa holders as they spend instead of save.
Brix, let's hope that the talk of HMG taxing either div's or growth on ISA's comes to nothing.
Growth if holding Lloyds shouldn't be an issue but taxing the already poor div would be.
I have funded my shares isa with a lot of cash a couple of weeks ago, just in case instead of taxing div's or growth, HMG goes for the softer option to keep the baying masses at bay by limiting the amount of capital allowed in per annum.
Not sure what to buy with it, or when, as a hopeless investor.
Have all my Lloyds in isa but as said growth not an issue, and likely never will be if they 'tame' inflation, which Lloyds share price miraculously doesn't seem to rise with like everything else, OR if it has, then its prospects must be even more dire than even I assumed.
Good luck with NWG, my concern with them is the Gov holding, but that could be it 'making' for the time being, as HMG will want to raise its price to get out before any election.
And IF they play it like Lloyds, a few choice words from a puppet CEO can do marvels to raise the s.p, albeit only till the market finds 'words are cheap' and then reality kicks in.
Half truths are great, pretend that a large amount of the profits will be returned to investors, and then ensure between the 'string puller' at No.10 that those profits are utilised before actually coming shareholders direction.
Takes a while to realise, and some never accept it. Don't become one of 'them'.
Brixton, once again the 'dream' here is shattered. You will get used to it after a decade of rinse/repeat, although clearly that can never apply to all.
So a large churn of new investors is essential for Lloyds to provide fresh hope and to ensure new impetuous money keeps buying as the more enlightened either sell, or stick awaiting the much hyped pay-day or die waiting.
Least few have to worry about paying CGT here, every cloud..
In all this uncertainty at least we can rely on Lloyds to disappoint next week, and even with the drop in s.p from the fall out fromboth Barc and NWG's results priced in, you can be sure we can eclipse that now expected drop in our s.p, so 49p may be the close but 47 surely a more realistic low of the day?
Still for those never having had a 'bad day' whilst holding Lloyds, they will pretend to be 'pleased' at the fact that Lloyds can then buy even more shares back at a lower price to add to their imaginary jam tomorrow pot.
Slurs and insults and accusations are all thrown when facts cannot be denied in a vain attempt to prevent the truth being told.
At least my posts are Lloyds relevant and insightful, unlike that frightful woman Cathsoames, Crowcast, Jayfax, etc etc who has gone, for now.
Be grateful for small mercies
Yet messages repeated daily predicting not jam, but the finest 'preserve' for Lloyds and it's shareholders go unchallenged.
Again, one rule for one view from LTI another for anyone dare seeing it differently AND with proof.
IF as is your 'bent' Lti, you would scroll back to any day of any week over the last decade or more, you will find not a few but countless posts 'preaching' the same messages of milestones, catalysts which are going to propel Lloyds share price upwards, YET they never have for more than a fleeting moment if at all.
So all those repeats are fine to read daily, as it makes all feel better, yet one or two posters with a decade plus of proof posting to the contrary view are dissed, or attempted to be bullied off the board so the 'fools paradise' of happy chat can keep fooling themselves and other newcomers.
At least Flec rightly knows that others have differing opinions and agrees to disagree and allow time, which is unfortunately eternal, to show who was right in their opinions. Let's hope we live long enough for this day of proof to show. I have around 15ish years past to prove my views were correct, how long do we wait to prove Flec's and your view I wonder?
IF I had been bullish on Lloyds in the past I could understand the slurs, as easy to be 'wise' after the event, I though have seen this for what it is, but hoped others were right, they weren't though but will never admit it.
So concur with Flec agree to disagree otherwise a boring dull read for the other more valuable contributors to the board, telling us how well we will be doing ....... somewhen.
I have no delight in knocking the UK or Lloyds.
I was born in the UK as were my parents, grandparents and those before as far as I can trace.
I have too much in Lloyds to have reasons other than telling it how I see it to knock Lloyds for no reason.
In fact it is more about knocking foolish people who 'can't' or won't accept facts that is the issue.
I have said clearly Lloyds are making great profit. It is the lack of acceptance that those profits will be dispersed BEFORE falling into the millions of hands of shareholders which is the 'issue'
IF a person knows their fat, then having someone point it out is hurtful, BECAUSE it is true, for IF they were not overweight, then clearly the person saying they are fat would be a fool, to then be ignored or pitied.
So as with me saying Lloyds is a dire investment still, and I fear going forwards is not because they aren't making good profits, but because they are used by HMG to fund what they can no longer afford to do, so to shareholders never again going to be a great investment.
I say a lot of facts, re: inflation and buy backs with a lowly share price are telling as think how low it would be without either. The div 6% ish below inflation is hardly a reason to rush to buy.
So as it is easy to knock the UK, lets agree that we are at full or there about employment, housing market not collapsed and house prices holding well and few defaults
That then makes Lloyds share price even worse, for when or IF the downturn comes, IMAGINE what it will be then, and IF Labour get 'in' then we will be in serious trouble.
So why would anyone wish to get a 4 ish p.c return on their money with such risks, and have this assumed increase in yield from buybacks , when as we see the increase in share price can be snatched away within moments, making any buy back gain a precarious means of holding wealth, whereas a div can be banked or re-invested if you have 'blind faith' in your CEO and Gov, current or future.
Surely you can see if Lloyds doubled the div, then buybacks would be needless as the amount of new investors would 'mop up' the huge amount of shares in issue, making the huge amount unimportant.
Of course that won't happen, but a decent increase in the div would add greatly to the appeal of holding a lame duck priced less in the Butchers window than it was a decade ago, despite the butchers stock being a lesser amount than then.
Give a kilo of Steak with each duck sold and even a dead duck would 'fly' off the hook.
Sufcessex,
Proof not that it's needed, that when anyone be it huge news media giants, brokers, or hopefuls on here, predict good news, punters lap it up, yet when anyone predicts low expectations the organisation or individual is ignored or 'dissed'.
Says it all.
Like parents of stupid or troublesome children, they can 'never see it' or be told and anyone one and everyone else is 'to blame'
No wonder with such the world is so messed up, the truth is not allowed to be told unless so sugar coated it's encased in a shell so hard that its unrecognisable.
fleccy, whilst you may feel my view is garbage because Lloyds has good earnings outlook, you must understand that many businesses having great earnings, but it is what happens to those earnings which matters to shareholders.
And to be at best given a pitiful rise on a div currently 6% LOWER than inflation, and be told that instead, even more 'buybacks' will happen, which IF it has the effect of 'raising the share price' then shows just how DIRE Lloyds share price really is, what the 'buybacks' AND huge inflation factored into to its lowly 51p ish share price, then what is this 'catalyst' which YOU can see but apparently the whole world and markets 'don't see' hence the low valuation placed upon Lloyds?
Like you can't talk it up, my comments won't talk it down, so lets be honest, and say that Lloyds is low for 'good reason (s)'
Some being that the UK is struggling to treat, feed and house it's in-organic rapidly increased population of growing poor, so any profits made by companies will be under the radar of HMG and stealth taxed, or windfall taxed, or other diverse means to extract such to spend on what HMG can no longer afford to do.
So only an idiot would see Lloyds is not making great profits, but for you to assume that a few 'hopefuls' yourself included on here think you know better than the market is concerning.
Consider the effects of inflation on all prices. Then 'think' how low Lloyds is after years of inflation. Consider the 'buybacks' then consider what price we now are 'with' those buybacks 'priced in' and you surely can see what a dire investment this really is?
Consider the state of the UK, the fact that roads are crumbling , hospitals struggling, dentists and doctors at breaking point, housing crisis, food banks, public w.c's closing all due to lack of funds and now households and businesses hit with energy rises and inflation priced into everything, then clearly the future for the UK and Lloyds being 'twinned' is reflected 'in' the pathetic share price for a valid, just reason, and NOT just because some plonkers on a share board can't accept the truth that they misjudged their investment as I admit I have.
So when using words like 'garbage' try putting them after Lloyds share price and it would make for more accurate reading.
I find it odd that long term Lloyds shareholders and watchers have to ask why Lloyds are dropping, along with Natwest.
People asking 'have the results been leaked'.
Of course the massive profits were known about months ago, hence the rise from the mid 40's to the 50's.
But like all 'seem' to realise that the share price 'overly' drops, so does it work the other way, and the share price on the known leaked news become 'overly inflated'.
The large institutions know to get out pre the news, hence the drop.
But surely by now most don't need to ask "How come results good or not too bad yet we still drop?"
Clearly because the massive profit is 'already priced in' AND SOME, due to hype and the masses buying in later, after nervously worrying and only buying in when the price has had a sustained rise, BUT by then those in the know, have already bought in weeks before at lower prices, so, those buying late are paying over the odds, come the news, the share price returns to its 'real' market value.
The large buyers exit near the top as they are unloading whilst late coming masses eagerly buy up their cast offs a week or two pre the reporting season, after feeling 'safe' as the share price has risen, when the truth is, it is the worst time to buy as the results is 'baked in', and the masses buying later push it ABOVE what it is really worth.
Hence the drop on the results day for banks, UNLESS the CEO pulls a surprise out of the bag which the 'large investors' weren't privy too, say a real meaningful increase in div's . But all we get now is 'buybacks', thus the bank is keeping hold of its profits and not dispersing it to those who wish to hold, so only make a gain if they sell, BUT as we see, the buyback gain, is so 'offset' by the lack of dividend increase, the share price drops MORE than the buyback gains, so worst of both worlds.
SEE IT HOW IT IS
....Same fool.
In your eyes as I mentioned earlier there is never a 'bad time' for Lloyds, and in mine rarely a 'good time' if a lth, not a trader.
Of course all share buying depends on when one buys and sells, but to have a huge UK banks share price LOWER than a decade ago, it is imo a disgustingly poor performance.
So, two totally different views on Lloyds.
Yet my view is backed by years of proof, yet yours is backed with nothing, other than the fact you say you have traded to get a lower ave.
But even that, IF true, is not the result of a great company, a top performance from our CEO, but due to your judgement and luck.
Really scraping the barrel using inflation if buying Lloyds shares today compared with earlier times makes it more of a bargain.
The issue is, that if anyone had told you that Lloyds would be less than it was all that time ago, they, as anyone with contrary views to yours are now, they would have been text bullied off the board.
The fact that after all the major expected milestones were passed which were 'supposed' to be game changers for Lioyds yet still they haven't propelled the share price or the dividend to even match inflation must tell you something is not right with Lloyds.
To say bank accounts haven't matched inflation ignores the fact that the risk with bank accounts is far less than with putting money into shares, which is why shares used to have far higher dividends to make the risk/reward worth it.
Anyway, not having long boring digs for three pages as you tend to enjoy.
The share price past and present says it all, and imo likely will still say it in the future too.
PS Do you think they will put a limit on share isa investment sums, or just reduce / freeze the amount allowed in p.a?
Many risks remain, yet reward are never forthcoming.
Naturally the FT will be higher, as inflation raises the price of everything, so even our lowly Lloyds is, like the FT100 at a higher price than it would otherwise be.
Yet that doesn't mean it is 'worth' more than it was, as try buying anything with the sale of shares and comparing what or how much you get compared with selling the same amount a decade ago.
Yet maybe that is not a very good example as likely Lloyds was much higher then anyway so Lloyds lth have likely lost out on STILL having a lower share price, and the fact that the shares perceived value is much less due to years of inflation.
Why does anyone honestly 'expect' that to change in the future?
Add a worsening world, thousands extra of impoverished arriving to fund when we can't even house, heat, treat and feed our own people now, so can you see 'this' becoming a boom time for the UK and 'thus' Lloyds as the two are cojoined?
You know the Gov doesn't want or cant afford to tax the baying masses of poor to fund all the problems, but HMG are wise enough to know it can demonise Banks and Oil companies, who, by 'coincidence', are the ones making huge profits and then the baying 'masses' turn their 'anger' onto such, shouting for blood and HMG willingly, and aided by their puppet, will 'give in' and stealth tax, windfall tax or find other means to syphon off much of the profits leaving us with a disgusting percentage of the profit.
Oh and I know 'buyback' are supposed to make the share price higher. IF so, then our share price is even more dire than it appears, and its share price is even more dire when taking inflation into account.
Lloyds is always a poor performer.
H
When house prices were low, then s.p low because the stock on Lloyds book priced lower.
House prices all time highs, then Lloyds suffers because people can't afford mortgages.
Inflation low, so borrowing cost low so not much margin, so Lloyds s.p low
Inflation high, so default risk higher, people have less spending money so can't save for deposit, or fund mortgages so easily.
Always a reason, never a cure to lift this, and when buybacks and inflation are 'factored in' along with a dividend barely over HALF what inflation is running at, then I feel vindicated in telling it how it is, and informing the board of imo, the fact that this is a dire share.
Just a buffer zone between HMG and the feckless as a funds provider to keep the high street tills pinging, as HMG needs to keep our battered economy from total collapse and so knows which companies have large profits to plunder, hence the years of 'bank bashing' and now doing the same to oil companies using 'green' issues to fill the milking pail.
Still, I'm not one to moan.
Pyro, no, YOU didn't see it coming but the large investors do.
They must love the hype from fools on these boards to be able to hype the shares and then, get out pre their KNOWN results and have this group of 'ready buyers with keen money' to allow them to exit with buyers snapping them up still at a good price.
Then they know, like the song, "Lets do it all again" next pre results, hence my Jam again title.
Fear not,
Lti will be along soon to tell you how this is 'good' news, as Lloyds can buy back more at a cheaper price.
And IF anyone has days to waste disagreeing with him, he will merely point out that 'he' has traded or added countless more at amazingly low prices to lower his average, and if that is challenged then he will tell you to 'sell up' and go elsewhere, as can never ever bring himself to admit what a dire investment for lth's this share is, and continues to be, despite 'expected' miles stones 'hoped' to change that. Such as Gov out, PPI ending, Div returning, interest rates rising, full employment, Brexit etc etc
So imo IF as it has, it is still a low price (even worse when inflation is factored in) just THINK how dire it will be now with not just banks getting 'hit' by higher costs, but the public too.
A pathetic dividend 6% ish below inflation, and the div sum deducted from the share price on ex-div day all things being equal.
Yet even when the share price plummets the Lti's and Aspergers, will still be telling all how wonderful it is, with the former telling how he sold at the right time and of course bought in again at the bottom (after the event)
I know be honest is unpopular and positive posters make comforting reading when we are all 'unsure', but after well over a decade just see it and say it how it really is. As you can't fool yourself.
With the telling, as if 'all' of us needed to be told of Barclays " higher expenses and an increase in bad loan provisions weighed on performance" message will clearly apply to Lloyds, who being even 'closer' to HMG will again happily fund those debtors buying cars they can't afford and larger homes they didn't need and were overstretched for instead of shareholders.
But many of the shareholders will not 'admit' their dismay, and instead 'spin' the drop egging one another on, by saying things like " I am glad as more buy-backs at a cheaper price" and, " They have put way too much aside for bad loans, mortgage defaults etc, so we will likely get that back as a 'special' when found to not be needed "
etc, etc
See it for what it is an HMG used bank to fund the feckless, NOT because the Gov are kind, but the Gov know that they have to keep businesses going as their ilk are the owners of such, and so will do what it takes to keep such from going under, and can ONLY take from those who have large profits.
Wise money already gone and relying on the 'jam tomorrow ' mob to buy up their cast offs .