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Market Cap is the total shares in issue times the share price. It does not include treasury shares.
Dan
yes as i have said x times, but some think otherwise
I'm saying the market determines the MCAP, the SP is then a function of that value.
As is evidenced when more shares are issued (but not for a cash consideration), the MCAP doesn't effectively change, its the SP that is adjusted to reflect the change in share count.
Im not then disputing the simple maths that the SP x share = MCAP. Similar to how no-one can dispute the maths that MCAP / Shares = Share price, or MCAP / Share price = shares. That is simple maths. What I'm disputing is that the SP is the starting point. whereas it might be the value everyone trades off, but it is simply the value the MM put on the share to arrive at the MCAP. Try not to confuse correlation with causation!
Be
''I'm saying the market determines the MCAP, the SP is then a function of that value.''
''The market cap is the total value of the company, regardless of shares in issue''
The market cap is the number of shares in issue multiplied by the share price.
L.t.i. Many confuse market cap with enterprise value, or asset/ break up value. Vods enterprise value is much higher than it's market cap, but includes intangible assets which are risky assets, such as trade mark vodafone. . It is very complex, but I think vods market cap/sp is way undervalued ,but it is not black or white! Some of the arguments on here are so pointless. A bit like party bollotics. Hope we end up today? Good luck.
I'm not confusing what MCAP is!
Any traders will use there methods to arrive at what they think is a fair value of the company. Be it EBITDA multiples, NPV on FCF, the NAV. All of those methods are used to come to what they think the company is worth. If the current MCAP is below that value materially that could tempt them to buy into the share, thus moving the share price up or down for the day. But its the overall value of a company that the stock market is valuing, the current SP and shares in issue are a proxy to arrive at that value. nothing more nothing less
Beo1. I would give up if I were you. You are not making any sense. Lie down before you do your next post please.
Dan
''Some of the arguments on here are so pointless. ''
unfortunately some like to carry on an 'argument' even when told the simple facts, because they simply cannot say that they got it wrong. As in -
BE
''The market cap is the total value of the company, regardless of shares in issue''
The market cap is the number of shares in issue multiplied by the share price.
There was no need for any response after my 13:29 post
Vodafone net assets are about 60 Billion Euro
Take NVIDIA. they want to split the stock to bring the SP down. which should in turn create more of a market place (which could drive SP changes, but thats a different story)
But the market will value NVIDIA at $Xb, if nothing else changes and they halve the share count. the MCAP doesn't halve, as the market will still value them at $Xb, thus the Market Makers would have to halve the SP to factor that.
Stop confusing correlation with causation!
"Market Cap is the total shares in issue times the share price. It does not include treasury shares."
The Market Cap considers all of a company's outstanding shares.
Free Float Market Cap (Free Float = Total Shares - Treasury Shares - Shares held by Strategic Entities) considers only shares that are considered to be freely available for trading in the market
I have a much simpler way of working things out, if the dividend and share price increases it's a good investment, if the dividend and share price reduces it's not very good at all, also if the share price reduces more than the dividend that's not good, next year the share price will be halved so we are now depending on the share price to rise to make up for the dividend drop,the rest is Bollotics as Dan puts it, so let's hope this can start growing
Market cap is complicated. It is the s.p. times the outstanding shares. Look it up on google to understand what outstanding shares means, & stop arguing about it on here please. It is what the stock market thinks the company is worth. If you think vod is worth more buy, if less sell, Simple, not rocket science is it?? If you don't like vod, just go away please. good bye.
Or if you think it’s a total dog, don’t touch it with a barge pole, which is where I am. Whatever the Board have done and whatever they plan to do, it’s unlikely to quickly change the sp. This tanker is going to take a lot to turn it around.
I give up. I'm not disputing the MCAP is what the market thinks the company is worth. Show me anyway on this thread where I said otherwise.
Simply saying the SP is derived from the MCAP that the market places on the company.
Whereas LTI is saying the MCAP is is derived from the SP that the market places on the company
There is a subtle difference I am highlighting, if you cant understand that then I suggest you stay away from the thread
It's all a matter of perspective , if you bought these at anything from 80p-£1+ it's a dog but if you have bought these in the high 60's or low 70's it's a great buy. Simple.
I am in the great buy group ,brought in very low 70s.
No doubt a few pence worth of divi's which means you aren't quite as bad off as it would seem, get these to 1.00 and I think that would be remarkable progress
Be
''Market capitalisation doesn't include any shares in issue''
''There is a subtle difference I am highlighting, if you cant understand that then...''
The market cap is the number of outstanding shares in issue multiplied by the share price.
OMG Give it a rest.
The SP is the market cap / shares in issue
See we can both regurgitate the same stuff we both have
Be
18 Jun 2024 14:07
''Market capitalisation doesn't include any shares in issue''
''There is a subtle difference I am highlighting, if you cant understand that then...''
The market cap is the number of outstanding shares in issue multiplied by the share price.
Be
''the same stuff''
I gave you the same facts, which need repeating because you are all over the place and simply cannot admit you were wrong.
There was NO need for you to respond to
18 Jun 2024 13:29
lti
''The market capitalisation of Vodafone does not include shares held in treasury.''
was there?
you are making unnecessary posts - I have given you the fact several times already - end of.
I wasn't wrong, but you are too stuck up your one ar** to listen to anyone but your own voice.
I'm done trying to discuss with you. Said it before and I'll say it again, your a narcissist, who when questioned, doesn't actually respond to anything but keep coming our with your tripe.
Be
The market capitalisation of Vodafone does not include shares held in treasury - they are treasury stock.
The market cap is the number of outstanding shares in issue multiplied by the share price - end of.
Im not even arguing that you muppet
I'm saying the market doesn't go oh this share is worth 72p today. In values the company as a whole and the SP is derived from that valuation.
But yes in you simplistic primary school maths SP x Shares = MCAP. Never disputed that, what I have disputed is which part of that sum is the cause, rather than the effect. Do you understand that? Do i need to draw a picture for you to understand. Stop arguing about something that I have never argued about. You started this off by using the wrong terminology by saying the same stupid math comment. I was just correcting you that the MCAP is the starting point not the ending point. The SP is simply the tradable value the MM use to get to the MCAP, but they are valuing the MCAP first and foremost and the SP is then a product of that value.
Be
''muppet''
I suggest you or anyone following the posts after my post at -
18 Jun 2024 13:29
which was answering someones question, may indicate who the muppet is.
The market capitalisation of Vodafone does not include shares held in treasury - they are treasury stock.
The market cap is the number of outstanding shares in issue multiplied by the share price - end of.