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Is the Sp depreciated due to the recent press, yes. However, I don't think this is the bad news coming for SJP holders, but rather the change of model being forced onto them by the media is. The "implicit charges" people mention are early withdrawal charges (EWC), in which, if someone transfers their pension to an SJP pension they will be subject to a maximum of 6 years with an early withdrawal charge (EWC) decreasing per year 1%. At the end of the 6 years, no more EWC. This is the maximum and is dependant upon the charging structure of their existing pension which the new SJP pension will be compared against. the lower the charges the more the adviser will have to "give up" in regards to their initial fee. It is worth nothing SJP pay the advisers their initial fee, and SJP benefit from having the pension invested for a minimum period, causing SJP to make their money by an annual AMC. Total charges often do not exceed 2% on SJP pensions, if ever they do by 0.02% or something minimal. Independent firms have total expense ratio's, all things encompassed from product charges, platform fees for whichever platform they invest their clients money, to their ongoing advice charges and these are essentially on the same level as SJP charges, around the 2% mark. The difference is you do not pay the initial fee with SJP whereas with independent firms which are whole of market, you do. For example. If you have a £300,000 pension in which you wanted to transfer to SJP, the whole £300,000 would be invested and would be subject to an EWC for a maximum of 6 years depreciating 1% per year. If you are 6 years or more off accessing your pension, you do not pay an initial charge at all effectively. But, even if you are of pension age, you have an annual withdrawal allowance of 7.5%, meaning you can still draw income from your plan charge free, and if you are taking income it is rare and unsustainable to take more than 7.5% anyway. Now, with an independent firm, if you have £300,000 in your existing pension in the same scenario, 3% would be paid as an initial fee to your adviser (which is industry standard for an initial fee) leaving you £291,000 to transfer, being subject to the same 2% ongoing annual fee. Unfortunately, SJP has been forced by the media to sack off its old approach and adopt the independent route. Personally, I think this is bad for SJP, what that means for shareholders I do not know. I am sure SJP will adapt to the changes, but will it be as profitable as before, I doubt it. But, if there is a silver lining, it could still be that the SP is over depreciated. Thanks for reading all, if you have made it this far I respect your patience.
You couldnt make it up - after listening to the ambulance chasers targeting SJP on Greatest hits - I switch to rival Heart due to bad reception and there is an ad FOR SJP........
And it starts to sink again…..the apparently bombed out price does present an opportunity for M&A but it would be very high risk for the bidder (I doubt a listed company would take it on) as they would need to offer a premium to get interest from current management and BoD. A bidder is more likely when the hard work has been done and current difficulties fully quantified.
Avoid until end 2025 is my view.
Who knows oj but I am amazed at the number of people I know who use SJP and love them. “But they are very expensive and their performance is so-so” leaves them very unmoved.
My feeling is the regulator, after decades of destroying financial services companies with retrospective legislation, has finally pitched this one right. SJP can simply replace exit fees with initial charges.
Really don’t see a flood here. SJP clients are not listening to ads for ambulance chasers IMO.
I get why this is in the SJP chat, but the people shorting SJP are grown ups, making a lot of money because their belief that there is more bad news than is being shared keeps proving correct, wouldn’t it be better to tighten up corporate and regulatory reporting so the possibility of bad news waiting to come out at a future date was available to everyone and not just folk with intuition or crystal balls.
Either way, massive swings in both directions everyday. Definitely a good trading share at the moment if you can time it right.
Still bad news to come im afraid - UK wide Greatest Hits radio has continious advert from an ambulance chaser lawyer looking for people/investors with a gripe about the service......
Its risen because a news article mentioned STJ and suggested its ripe for a takeover so all the carpet baggers jump on board for a quick profit, they will stay 1 or 2 weeks and then be gone again.
Heading back to £5? Currently 2nd highest riser on FTSE100. Didn't expect such a recovery from the recent lows of 410 but market seems very forgiving right now.
Porsche what a pathetic little man you are, stop moaning and get a life .
@Porsche
Get a life constantly talking about Brexit. Seek help saddo
I thought the advertising is too generic…..and very millennial….you have to fear for the next generation when Dads have to be there for emotional support…
The adverts by claims management companies have started to appear for Quilter….
Once there are significant complaint numbers, the company cannot make offers before the Ombudman referral time kicks in….with a min £750 cost to the company for each case….and many more costs of investigation before there is any thought of compensation….The industry needs a solution to stop this spiralling out of hand for everyone.
The bigger problem may be how the company deals with the Partners many of whom bought books of business from other agents with expected cash flows and those may now be cut and reduce the value of the businesses they run. If SJP mishandle the partners there will be litigation galore and it could sink SJP as a business.
It seems like a one way bet at the moment….every day another 1-3% comes off the price.
This turd of a share a dog even by U.K. ftse 100 most hated basket case index in the world standards, heading for sub 2 quid a share in the next market sell off, their business model is being dismantled. Terminal, like U.K. plc in general. Net outflows every year since 2016 from U.K. market, enjoying brexit?
The problem in trying to work out what price to go back into the share is always the same one, don't try catching a falling knife. Its got to hit the floor first and right now its still in flight.
Think they should change the name to Rock and Hard... Been watching this but still have no confidence to buy any.. I am looking for some recovery stocks but this is heading towards another year low!!
Drd21 I am sure you are correct and the claims management companies are turning a blind eye to the vast opportunity presented by all the other financial services companies.
Little does it matter though, the problem for SJP is that they are haemorrhaging cash, it has drip fed the bad news to the markets leaving everyone guessing when they will gain some certainty.
The SP chart suggests no end in sight for the decline.
Until the remediation is scoped and the reputational effects on clients / partners / staff can be ascertained there can be no recovery….the only thing that is guaranteed is that it will overshoot on the downside…..only the brave/foolish will buy this year.
Bullsh*t CG. I can assure you it is as bad if not worse at other networks. Do you think your local IFA has robust records to demonstrate servicing has been taking place regularly? The reality is the vast majority of financial adviser, inside or outside SJP look after their clients well. They just don't have belt the and braces paper trail to prove if not that consumer duty demands it. Ultimately it is the clients with small pots of money who miss out as the advice gap grows further. If advisers can service fewer clients in the new consumer duty world the will be cutting those clients with smaller pots.
There may well be some contagion with other businesses but STJ thought itself the biggest and the best and it incentivised /rewarded the greediest.
The salesmen and supporting staff where I worked always wanted to copy the STJ schemes and compliance/HR had to stop them implementing the worst aspects.
There will be self-justified reasons to continue charging for ongoing advice when it was not received - the client did not respond, the client was told the fee etc.
Let’s be honest about ongoing advice - for most people unless there is a life event a three or even 5 year review is ok. And for most investments performance will vary around the average. Managed portfolios where the investment advisory firm can change investment funds within the overall aim of the client and contact with the client to check there is no major change is good enough for most clients and should carry minimal cost.
Dropped 1% not even 9am yet. This is worse than I thought.
I don’t think you’ll find the same issues at other financial firms. Ever since the regulations changed there has been a paranoia that something like this would happen, somehow SJP convinced themselves that they were special and just saying they were providing good service without a robust process would be enough.
The idea that they can get advisers to pay back fees is a non starter, firstly they withheld some of the fees and paid the advisers as contractors and secondly they regularly reviewed the compliance of advisers individually and were satisfied at the time of those reviews it will be hard to claim they got the reviews wrong without accepting they were negligent, that will bring even more problems out in the open.
I think even starting with a 3 might be too optimistic, i can see this dropping and not recovering until 2027/8. Its just toxic, what might help is if other financial companies start getting named and then its not just St J that's getting all the punishment.
Abandon ship!
The dead cat bounced but was not brought back to life.
This is now sinking gradually lower and I suspect Porsche is rightly predicting the SP starting with a 3.
This is only getting worse for the next 18m, with a recovery only starting in 2027.
Anyone continuing to hold hoping for a turnaround may be waiting a very long time. Rule number 1: Protect your capital.