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"Paris Gets a Wild Meme Stock as Atos Becomes a Chatroom Favorite
Stock doubled in four sessions as short sellers pared bets
Analysts have said shares could become almost worthless"
So, shares could become worthless in one of our biggest compettitors.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-06-20/paris-gets-a-wild-meme-stock-as-atos-becomes-a-chatroom-favorite?srnd=homepage-americas
Need to be a subscriber to read the full article.....anyone?
Read it on yahoo kipper…
https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/paris-gets-wild-meme-stock-133803755.html
Thanks Okey,
With a market cap of just EUR 188m, and debt of EUR 5 billion, it's not looking good for our competitor ATOS
Interestingly, revenue is quoted at EUR 10.7 billion. Lesson there, in that revenue is not a metric to be relied upon too much.
Government talking to 'other providers' should the worst happen. Capita perhaps? Is a golden opportunity about to land in AH's lap!
Yer, not a footie fan really, but it was pathetic at times wasn't it......
Hi Kipper
Yip spot on don't want to say too much, this has been expected. Atos has been reducing headcount for some time, they have also been buying contracts and business’s. A lot of good people in Atos as well I have worked with them but not within them.
We are going to see a slow dissemble of the business. With the current problems of the French Government cant see them bailing out Atos.
It looks like the Capita restructure happened at the right time.
Fancy my chances, taken short on BT. Savage political views influenced my decision imho
Potentially interesting and its a good point made about revenue, as we know only too well from Capita's perspective. I would like to think that AH and the team are either in direct conversations with government right now, setting out their stall and creating capacity should an opportunity land, with a requirement for a quick turnround.
The good news is that, I think we can trust the new team to enact proper due dilligence in the event of a contract or two being offered and would only engage if it was 'right' for CPI. It looks as if ATOS have probably suffered the same fait as Capita in the passed - accepting contracts that do not have the requisit profit margin possibilities.
In any event it will be interesting to see how this unfolds, but imagine how a profitable contract of say 1bn would be great for CPI's revenue and portfolio.
Simples, so it might not be just contracts that Capita can benefit from but we might pick up some very competant people, who see a better future with us than ASOS. Rats>Ship>Sinking, so to speak. Well, maybe not rats. It all smells of Capita in the day's of Pindar/Parker. They were CEO's after Aldridge, and run up a good bit of debt from what i read. Then we got our chum JL. Our debt now is a fraction of what it was (£1.1bn?), and with Adolfo at the helm, i recon, with patience, we will come out ok.....
Someone mentioned employees now at 41000. It use to be 52/53,000. That's a total reduction of 11/12 k staff. With further to come from capital market event imho
Good point Aim, so massive savings there. I note on the Atos website they employ 109,000 people. My point would be, as Simples alluded to, that some of these great people might be coming to Capita.
A lot going on behind the scenes.....
Alternatively... the trouble at ATOS and the well embedded long running decline of CPI could in fact suggest some big issues sector wide, perhaps this could signal contagion spreading in the sector? CPI looks vulnerable and ATOS could just be the canary in the coalmine?
@ Savage "Alternatively... the trouble at ATOS and the well embedded long running decline of CPI could in fact suggest some big issues sector wide, perhaps this could signal contagion spreading in the sector? CPI looks vulnerable and ATOS could just be the canary in the coalmine?" Savage, what on earth brings you to make such a statement. We are talking about the problems individual companies face, not a sectoral issue. If there was skrinkage in the size of the market, you mightb have a valid point. But thats not the case, if anything the outsourcing sector will increase in value over the next period of time.
The obvious difference between ATOS and CPI is that Capita have done the hard yards and have/are reducing debt, with plans to go forward that are founded in a realistic projections, with a strategy that is deliverable (imho). To reduce a debt pile of 5.5b put ATOS in the Cine league and there aint no coming back from that. Government's, particularly the French version, are in no financial position to bail out ailing companies, and I doubt if they would in the case of ATOS, as it would not be an investment which would deliver a positive return.
Capita are well positioned to consider growth by aquisition, but only if it fits with their strategic objectives. AH is a considered individual who has a plan and that will be put first and foremost, in any consideration for opportunities that may arise from the likes of ATOS.
Well said Lordy. I don't get to read the Savage fools drivel & your first paragraph sum's up why. He is mearly a disruptor, making comment for mischief. Very immature really to need attention in this way. Sadly, a lot of boards here suffer to some degree. Filter option is most useful
Lordy2020 - what is obvious is the huge revenue shrinkage of CPI over the last 7yrs which looks set to continue further this year too... So with ATOS on the brink and CPI coming close to have the revenue generation of 7yrs ago... well that amounts to a lot of shrinkage... which weirdly you claim hasn't happened.
CPI coming close to half* the revenue generation of 7yrs ago
@Savage - I'm not sure I should indulge you with an answer Savage, but. If you read what I actually wrote then you'll see that I was commenting on the fact that there has been no sectoral reduction in revenue. Of course CPI has reduced revenue, it stands to reason with JL's approach to reducing debt by asset stripping and reducing 11 departments down to two. And as well documented by the more learned folk on this HYS board - revenue is only any use if it delivers profit. Now please eff off and if your going to comment further - try and put forward some reasoned or informed comment - positive or negative - but with adult reasoning behind it.
Over and out - off to the Oval via the pub to indulge in beer and cricket.
Kipper9
Possibility of contracts, However cannot see AH being blown off target. If the Gov wants Capita to take on projects then it will be at a fair price! Capita has walked away from several large projects lately. I cannot see that changing. It’s not Capita’s job to fix the UK’s problems.
As far as people are concerned they will need a few new skill sets and a few existing heads but headcount will remain small.
Savage
You are behind the times for CPI, in the past yes too many outsourcers chased low margin contracts and ended up losing money, yes CPI did this but you need to wake up and smell the coffee, CPI recognised the problem and only go for profitable business now; this is why there is a significant reorganisation. ATOS realised this too late are in serious trouble, worse than CPI was in.
The out sourcing industry is now well aware of the problems chasing low margin contracts so not only is CPI not doing this anymore but others in the industry will not be doing this. New contacts will be on terms that give a decent return and it is highly unlikely any competitor will undercut as they are all too well aware of what will happen. Not only the ATOS contracts will probably be awarded to other suppliers like CPI at a better return and all outsourcers will not be under bidding any more as they want to stay solvent and have a decent return, I am sure these lesions have been hard leaned after the destruction of companies bidding on too low a margin, this is the new world. It can only be good for CPI, now smaller but in profit once the reorganisation completed.
Terry M1
Good Synapsis!
The Gov must also shoulder part of the blame caused by aggressive accountants demanding silly prices.
I had this problem with the Post Office in the Nineties. In my case I got up and walked away from the meeting telling them to give me a call when they came to their senses!
Needless to say we did come to agreement but their expectations were silly!
All down to poor management!
Simpiles
I agree, the Government are partly responsible for this, they also caused this in the energy market with de-regulation, now most of these companies are bankrupt or out of the market leaving it to few to make a reasonable return.
I would assume that in the future the Government not only realise silly prices are no good for anyone but will look closely at the how stable the companies are, they might just lean the lesson from the ATOS mess at least for a short time.
Terry M1
I think the lesson has mostly been learnt however some of the ministers during the Covid period definitely mis behaved.
There are other outsourcing companies with problems at the moment. All down to the same problems!
Looking forward to August when things will be a lot clearer!
Lordy2020 - I take your point that 'revenue is only any use if it delivers profit' and I whole heartedly agree... However, as well as more than halving of the CPI revenues I draw your attention to the CPI profits (or moreover distinct lack of them) over the past 7yrs too.
Now I get you're laying the blame at JL but... is he the only person responsible for CPI's financial calamity? Because I think there's much bigger issues with CPI, embedded right through root and branch and I also think there is a wider problem with the wider sector and the business model of other businesses like CPI. ATOS being a rather similar beast compared to CPI may just be one of the first collapses and CPI could well be next?
Simpiles has chimed in with "It’s not Capita’s job to fix the UK’s problems." - I think this looks at the problem from the wrong direction... in the opinion of many it's CPI that has many problems... which appear to be causing UK Gov to suffer ill effects and migraines too! Might help explain why CPI's sales, revenues and profits are all down, perhaps because CPI is just a shockingly bad business? and a shockingly poor investment too?
It's certainly very interesting observing how many of you leap to blame Gov for Capita's ills...
You'll fit right in with the Reform party with your gammonsplaining, after all the reform party mantra tends to be 'spend lots of money and take no responsibility' as none of you seem to acknowledge just what a poor investment CPI is right now.
CPI has been failing for a long time now, selling a rubbish service for overhyped prices... then you wonder why it's sales, revenues and profits fall through the floor! It's sort of laughable the snooty look down the nose attitude of superiority you all have really.... Exemplified by Simpiles comment here where they said:"If the Gov wants Capita to take on projects then it will be at a fair price! Capita has walked away from several large projects lately." - A superb strategy for yet further revenue and profit reductions on the long road to recovery ahead.
Savage
There is no point in going on about CPIs past mistakes, as long term shareholders we are more aware of this than you are.
The question is will they recover if you believe this then buy the shares, if you don't move on and do not waste your time unless of course you main purpose is to wind up the current shareholders.
Yet all these idiot brokers , who you would have thought have a little bit more knowledge than us are now increasing their rating. But ofcourse Savage with not one share to his name in Capita, nor a bad experience with Capita that could give credence to his analysis and started trading at the end of 2022 is now the scribe of all scribes
Savage keeps needling you and you chaps keep responding to him - it's as predictable as the sun rising in the east. You do realise that no amount of logic/reason/forward looking statements help with the argument against the resident gaslighter Savage.
Chill out, reach out for that beer or wine, and ignore the lightweight gaslighter's comments. And if responding to needling comments feels like hard work, just remember there is always the filter option.
Stay patient and just remember that there's a real turnaround incoming, gaslighting notwithstanding!!!
GWA..