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Nothing like being a trading day late with a pay walled link!
It's interesting that Tesla's share price doesn't seem to get disturbed by these news items on the fires caused by their batteries. Perhaps investors see it as only a miniscule issue within their battery empire? Or maybe they have an 'it will only go on going up' mentality, so are blinkered to anything -ve?
ukmoe my apologies I will reply only to your first question as for the second I wouldn't like to have misunderstood the meaning.
Tesla sells cars not battery and in its space is still seen as the market leader, more over this fire issue has more to do with storage battery than cars, which is a small part of its market.
Also considering the size of Tesla market cap, the should be a disaster of proportionate magnitude happening to Tesla, to see a meaningful hit at its share price.
Surely it is a high profile new that its battery catch fire, but it still has to be seen how much this info/news are going round the globe.
In my opinion they should have focus on car battery and possibly focusing more on safety, and rechargeable speed solutions.
But hey the guy is already thinking to go to space, like Bezos and Richard, I am wondering why go to space, when I can see all that on youtube.
Lucky you do realise the EV battery and the grid battery are the same thing. The grid just has a quantum leap in the number of cells involved.
These batteries could (although I suspect in this instance unlikely) be used EV batteries housed in these containers. China is in the process of banning used EV batteries in grid storage.
https://technode.com/2021/06/24/china-to-ban-large-energy-storage-plants-from-using-retired-ev-batteries/
Yes Hintza I do, I was just getting at the fact that they are two different markets.
Geelong’s Tesla Big Battery fire burns over weekend.
Aug 1, 2021
A fire at French renewable energy giant Neoen’s Victorian Big Battery at Geelong continued to burn into Sunday, with fire crews awaiting experts from Tesla to assist in opening the Megapack battery that first caught ablaze.
The fire started at the partly federally funded 300-megawatt Tesla Megapack battery project at Moorabool on Friday morning. Fire crews quickly containing the blaze but were unable to extinguish it completely to determine what started it.
A Country Fire Authority spokesperson said the fire had been contained to two battery packs, but sparks flared up every so often, re-igniting the blaze. Tesla did not respond to requests for comment...........
https://www.afr.com/companies/energy/geelong-s-big-tesla-battery-fire-burns-over-weekend-20210801-p58etf
Watch the video and listen to the comments of assistant chief fire officer Ian Beswicke (35 seconds in)
https://amp.abc.net.au/article/100337488?__twitter_impression=true
"Fire crews quickly containing the blaze but were unable to extinguish it completely to determine what started it...."
Errr, well...I think we all know Lithium started it!
My assumption is that, the bigger these factories build and the more we need them to produce EV components the more disastrous events will arrive if Li is used. Let's not forget the Coventry gigafactory being considered in the UK too.
And if my old school learning taught me one thing, it is that Ford's initial assembly line requires an efficient flow...which cannot occur with regular battery explosions incurring frequent health and safety concerns.
Go figure...BMN is due a monster few years.
Just to add that, the gasses being released into the air are Hydrogen Fluoride.
A tad more harmful then your normal toxic smoke.
A couple of breaths will completely destroy your lungs.
These planning installations are being submitted without specifiying the actual battery technology
to be used and always the minimum MWh without indicating any further scale up of the project, initially flying under the radar of the heath and safety and environmental depts.
EEVblog 1411 - Tesla Victoria Big Battery FIRE!
The Tesla "Victoria Big Battery" 450MWh battery storage facility at Moorabool in Victoria Australia caught on fire before it was even operational!
https://youtu.be/ukuSxK5VpI8
Crazy how the fireman says best thing to do is wait for it to burn itself out! Meanwhile other services say constantly pouring thousands of gallons of water on a battery fire is the only way to deal with it...
Clearly no one has an effing clue what's going on here, or how to deal with it, and this can't just continue with 'pot luck' being the only determinant.
Tesla's own recommendation is to let it burn out if you can, but if you can't then use lots of water. Problem either way is pollution. Air pollution from burning is probably less of a problem is it is not in an urban setting, water pollution containment from lots of contaminated firewater is more of a problem anywhere near to a river or where runoff can't be contained.
Assistant chief fire officer Ian Beswicke said that another container is also burning.
The second container could burn for a couple more days, so the firemen will probably need to stay on-site for a few more days.
Loudspeaker I do hope your not going to get your boots and leggings out.
If I will come with you.
personally I suspect the dowsing and water spray has more to do with a crude attempt at washing down the toxic fumes - it has been known for years you cannot put out a lithium fire
Second line should read
If so I will come with you.
I hung my boots and leggings up a long time ago.
Graham owns a yatch and likes to sail where other sailors fear to go.
Your not an old Photo man are you ?
I bet you know a few secrets that Alf seems to think that I did about Fire Brigades.
We do have a wealth of Knowledge on here.
Proto
Yep. Did the course at Birmingham Central 1976.
I expect one of the things at the back (if not right at the forefront!) of everyones minds is .... are one of the other containers also now about to explode and what guarantees are in place that’s not about to happen? Ooo errr! Squeaky bum time!
Is it the addition of water to the fire that creates the deadly gas, or is it a normal by- product of burning Lithium cells anyway?
Great did mine in 1969
give me a ring 0208 504 2965 I will ring you back.
If not give give me your no
Thanx L.S. Can’t pretend to understand all the technicals but the conclusions of that study are pretty clear: Water or no water ... Stay the feck well outhewayovit!
This study covered a broad range of commercial Li-ion battery cells with different chemistry, cell design and size and included large-sized automotive-classed cells, undergoing fire tests. The method was successful in evaluating fluoride gas emissions for a large variety of battery types and for various test setups.
Significant amounts of HF, ranging between 20 and 200?mg/Wh of nominal battery energy capacity, were detected from the burning Li-ion batteries. The measured HF levels, verified using two independent measurement methods, indicate that HF can pose a serious toxic threat, especially for large Li-ion batteries and in confined environments. The amounts of HF released from burning Li-ion batteries are presented as mg/Wh. If extrapolated for large battery packs the amounts would be 2–20?kg for a 100 kWh battery system, e.g. an electric vehicle and 20–200?kg for a 1000 kWh battery system, e.g. a small stationary energy storage. The immediate dangerous to life or health (IDLH) level for HF is 0.025?g/m3 (30 ppm)22 and the lethal 10?minutes HF toxicity value (AEGL-3) is 0.0139?g/m3 (170 ppm)23. The release of hydrogen fluoride from a Li-ion battery fire can therefore be a severe risk and an even greater risk in confined or semi-confined spaces.
This is the first paper to report measurements of POF3, 15–22?mg/Wh, from commercial Li-ion battery cells undergoing abuse. However, we could only detect POF3 for one of the battery types and only at 0% SOC, showing the complexity of the parameters influencing the gas emission. No POF3 could be detected in any of the other tests.
Using water mist resulted in a temporarily increased production rate of HF but the application of water mist had no significant effect on the total amount of released HF.