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I happen to listen to the science and technology committee meeting in government yesterday. Kate Bingham as good as stated the government have been short sighted cancelling the Valneva contract as Valneva has a set up that allows for whole virus vaccine production which is needed for future mutations of Covid virus. I really hope the government sees sense and reinstates a contract. I have bought more Valneva as I have to hope investing is based on logic!
Riseup,
I am looking for more information on the Valneva vaccine. Can you or someone else tell me more about it. I have checked studies, trials, and the Valneva website but it is all very ambiguous!
I would like to know:
What type of vaccine is it. mRNA, DNA?
What are the targets? Spike protein(S), Nucleoplasid (N)?
I know it’s a based in a deactivated virus but that’s about the only obvious fact I can find.
Thanks
Hi Bojo,
I work in drug development and can tell you a little about Valenva, maybe even answer your question.
A deactivated virus is the whole COVID virus itself. Deactivation usually means killing and it's an old but proven technology. One thing the RNA vaccines do not do is trigger a cellular (T cell response) which is a more usual way to prevent / kill viral infections. Antibodies generally block the virus entering cells and, if well engineered, can cause something called Phagocytosis where a type of immune cell (a Phagocyte, biologists have weird naming for stuff) kills the virus by engulfing it.
The RNA vaccines are great for a quick vaccine but in the long term a vaccine is needed that can produce a cellular response.
Will42
PS sorry for crashing this board but it seems to be one of the few places that has the most balanced viewpoints
Hi Will,
We are lucky you dropped in. welcome to our little space!
So the way I understand it mRNA is quick response.
DNA is slower to develop but usually has longer lasting response which would mean less need for boosting. That would be dependant on variants of course.
Is a deactivated vaccine mRNA or DNA or might it be either? I also understand that being as Valneva is a full but dead virus, it may provide wider coverage. I know Saul Faust of Southampton University Hospital was trailing that idea recently.
ATB
A deactivated virus is neither a RNA nor a DNA vaccine.
RNA vaccines work by going into cells and expressing whatever they are encoded to express. The RNA vaccines so far have all been for the spike protein that the virus uses to enter cells. DNA vaccines can do anything an RNA vaccine does but there is some evidence (Inovio mainly) that these can also trigger a cellular response if done right. But both rely on having a clear idea of what prevents illness (correlates of protection is the term) and I don't think there is enough evidence on that yet.
The dead virus also has this (it's on the outside) but also every other possible target with the added benefit that its a large particle. This last part is important because the bodies response to it changes via the cellular system.
These kinda explains it:
https://sites.bu.edu/covid-corps/projects/science-communication/types-of-vaccines-infographics/
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41563-020-0746-0
If I were a betting man, I think that long term a non-RNA vaccine is needed and it'll end up like influenza with a dominant strain each year. That's not far off what we have seen so far.
help!
https://www.raps.org/news-and-articles/news-articles/2020/3/covid-19-vaccine-tracker
https://www.ose-immuno.com/en/our-products/covepit-modular/
good read.
oseo's vaccine (recommended by nolupus)
Peptide vaccines are basically small parts of the protein target. What happens to the spike protein (or any other protein) is that the antigen presenting cells (APCs) take up the protein and chew it up into small immunogenic peptides to elicit the immune response. Peptide based vaccines short cut the process and try to get the APC to present the peptides of interest.
Normally, the peptides are synthetic which makes them easier to produce but the technology can be a little problematic. I don't think there are any approved peptide vaccines yet but there are plenty of peptide vaccines that have shown promise in oncology clinical trials.
This article explains them:
https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.chemrev.9b00472
Will42,
Any observations on Scancell’s DNA vaccine?
https://www.scancell.co.uk/scov1-scov2-covidity
The bit I struggle with is that they are targeting the nodule of the spike protein which represents a better target?
Also it is targeting multiple strains which appears to be ahead of the curve.
Many Thanks
There are other groups working on products that are for multiple strains too. I can't really say much about those though.
The truth with vaccine design if we really knew what to target and get a durable and protective response then there wouldn't be so many people chasing a vaccine. Everything is a good idea until its proven in the clinic and the failure rate is going to be high.
I think there concept is that this part is more likely to be conserved across the strains and so is a broader vaccine. It might work well but its hard to predict.